Posts by Had Enough

16

Escaped with my life!

by truman in

jw
friends

i wanted to give an update to all those who kindly offered suggestions on how to deal with my jw son's ultimatum' "go tell the elders, or i will".. these last few days have been an intense crash course in life for me.

having experienced my firstborn son, whom i gave birth to, wiped his behind, dried his tears, and helped to grow to adulthood with loving support, threaten to turn me over to the "authorities" (elders) for wrong thinking and wrong speech, has been a deeply disturbing experience.

learning the truth about the "truth" was shocking, but this is just a crying tragedy.. after he found a short email from a board friend, which inadvertantly got into our regular email box instead of my private one, i was given a week to go to the elders.

Had Enough

Hello truman:

I was very moved by your post asking for help but am sorry I could not at the time offer any help as it struck a little too close to home for me.

I still deal with a bitter memory of how quick my brother was to threaten my parents with a trip to the elders if they did not stop me from visiting them or even talking on the phone to them when I was df'd.

My father's health was failing at the time and it was heart wrenching to hear of how much he asked for me.

I too would like to think it is just love that motivates one to turn on a family member but I often wonder if it is more influenced by the constant bombardment of how they are too think, act, feel, and speak. Then when they see someone err, even a family member, they are very quick to point the finger and feel the need to run to the elders to "straighten this person out".

Yes your son says he wants things back to the way they were, because then you fit into his ideal picture like the borg paints, of a perfect JW family. But those "pictures" are just that...only pictures, not reality. He may not get that picture back, but at least you will have a large measure of sanity not having to follow their lies.

The way Amazing helped his family is very loving and effective. I have read his account and hope to somehow use his example.

Again, glad things worked out OK for you.

Had Enough

64

Convention Apostatizing Brings Gestapo Response

by outnfree in

jw
friends

my flyers merely said: if as a jehovahs witness, a member of your family has been molested information is available for further information see: www.silentlambs.org or call 1-877-wtabuse.. nothing overtly inflammatory, actually more like a public service announcement.. i guess thats what most of the local organizers and friends thought in my neck of the, woods for the first two days of the district convention!

but once the 'friends' realized that the website i was promoting with my flyers and moving car billboard was not an approved wt site, the powers that be got ... well ... pissed is the word!.

nobody bothered me on friday as i went smiling about my posting flyers on the light and utility poles on the routes to/from the convention site.

Had Enough

Hello jigrigger:

You asked about the source of the quotes...I'm assuming you mean in my post...if not..sorry just ignore this.

All the quotes in my post were from the same newspaper article written in June 1993 in the Religion Section of the Toronto Star (Canada) written by Michael McAteer.

The quotes without quotation marks ("") were the remarks of the writer's relating his interviews with 2 exJW's and with the Watchtower spokesperson Walter Graham.

The quotes with quotation marks ("...")around them are the exact comments from the person either the xJWs or the Witness Spokesperson Walter Graham at the DC in Toronto.

I hope this helps.

Had Enough

64

Convention Apostatizing Brings Gestapo Response

by outnfree in

jw
friends

my flyers merely said: if as a jehovahs witness, a member of your family has been molested information is available for further information see: www.silentlambs.org or call 1-877-wtabuse.. nothing overtly inflammatory, actually more like a public service announcement.. i guess thats what most of the local organizers and friends thought in my neck of the, woods for the first two days of the district convention!

but once the 'friends' realized that the website i was promoting with my flyers and moving car billboard was not an approved wt site, the powers that be got ... well ... pissed is the word!.

nobody bothered me on friday as i went smiling about my posting flyers on the light and utility poles on the routes to/from the convention site.

Had Enough

Hello outnfree:

That was quite an experience!! What courage and stamina you have!

I hope it accomplished something positive for any who "witnessed" the goings on and took note of your info.

I remember picketers outside at a DC I attended in 1993, but like a good little JW, I walked past them looking straight ahead, but I do admit my curiosity was peeked. I wondered, "Why did they feel so strong about leaving the org.?"

A newspaper article was written about that 1993 DC and JWs beliefs, in the Religion Section of a very prominent newspaper there.

I got, and still have, the article, which was written mostly from the angle of the feelings and thoughts of the exJWs and df'd ones, having a huge picture of a df'd lady 66 yearw old.

It said:

she was disfellowshpped or excomminicated from the organization for questioning one of its basic tenets. "I questioned the belief that Jesus Christ returned to Earth in invisible form in 1914..Who can argue with invisibility?"

It hightlighted her lack of communication with her daughter, grandchildren and great grandchildren because "they are not allowed to speak to me because it is said I am an apostate".

It also highlighted another lady's experience with just leaving the JWs. She was not baptised but said this JW religion has caused a huge
rift in her family because her father and 2 brothers have been df'd and she said:

After 20 years, one of her JW brothers still refuses to speak to her because she no longer considers herself a Jehovah's Witness.

At the time, the reason I kept this article was because of the "official statement" made by the Witness spokesperson who said:

"Fellowship and shunning is not as big a deal is made out." Graham says that if a Jehovah's Witness no longer wants to live according to the high moral standards required by the Bible then that individual can be excommunicated. "We have no more religious association with that individual," he says. And while Jehovah's Witnesses are not barred from associating with someone who has been excommunicated, "most chose not to be associated on a social basis." {bold is mine}

At the time when I was still an active JW, I considered this an interesting bit of ammunition for me in my feelings about shunning and the JW attitude. Here was an "official spokesperson" saying the JWs are "not barred from associating with someone who has been excommunicated" and that we could "choose" not to associate on a social level.

A newspaper article could easily be written highlighting your experience outnfree, by a writer who isn't just satisfied with the "official" news release propaganda handed out at each convention.

Of note: In this article, the JW spokesperson went on to hang himself and the org with those who know the real truth and to any observant JW at the time, when it said:

"In the past we used to project these (annual) conventions as a big deal and push our literature," he says. "It's now a much more pleasant approach. We are not pushing literature in their faces."
Much of the change has taken place since 1975 when some people interpreted a WatchTower article as predicting that year as the end of the world since then the "writings in the WatchTower have gone international" and are no longer centred at the organization's headquarters in New York.{bold is mine}

Again with the "it wasn't the society's fault it was the r&f would jumped ahead of the org"

It went on to say:

Before 1975 it was all centred in Brooklyn and that tended to produce a bit of a tunnel vision," he says. "When you carry that to an extreme it can carry you down the wrong channel.
If you isolate yourself, you get a Waco situation. I don't care who you are or how good you are, if you follow a man and isolate yourself, restrict association, restrict education, that's what is going to happen - a Jonestown or a Waco," Graham says {bold and italics mine}

Interesting comparison to Jonestown or Waco eh?

He says the Bible does not give a date for the end of the world but the expectation among Jehovah's Witnesses is that those living today who were born prior to 1914 would see Armageddon.
That puts it very close, but "we have been careful since 1975 to watch how we put these things in print."

This is only part of the whole article written. How much "truth" could be put out there for the public with the right agreeable writer wanting a good scoop on exposing the inner workings of a cult?

This article is quite yellow now so I'm going to find a way of preserving it now.

Had Enough

95

Org. Re-orging in JAPAN

by JWD in

jw
friends

for those of you who haven`t been following it,the wts is in a downward spiral here in japan.fs hours are down,memorial attendance.

is down,pioneers are down,studies are down,donations are down,number.

of congregations is down and the number of publishers continues to.

Had Enough

G'day Ozzie:

I'm orright and still verticle! Not letting them get me down.

That was an interesting point you made about "only baptised JW's in good standing are issued a blood card each January".

I guess that means I'm not considered worthy of one since I haven't been given one for the last couple of years that I haven't been attending. Although....the elders and pioneers and those in the car group with them out in service still drop in for a coffee and bathroom break regularly and are very friendly, but I've never been asked if I want a card or have been given the new form or whatever it is, to mark my 'medical choices'...."choices"??? you're right..it is more like coercion.

And yes JWD, it seems a lot is being done now that smacks of protecting themselves from legal action.

Had Enough

5

Oh my God!!! How can someone say THIS!!!!!!

by Gianluca in

jw
friends

i found this comment was found on the greatcrowd web site: http://www.greatcrowd.com/159ubb/forum22/html/000153.html.

a certain jw called cricked said about the upcoming dc :.

"you are all mean, kidding!!

Had Enough

Yes Gianluca:

I think calling a judicial committee is just what is needed to "help" you. You'll be contacted soon as to when and where it will be held....and bring lots of kleenex because we expect to see lots of grovelling and hand-wringing. Maybe after a few years of being df'd, we'll consider you for reinstatement....but only after you attend every meeting, don't talk to your family or friends and have been humiliated and humbled into the ground.

PS: yes I almost lost my lunch yesterday over that poster...even as an active JW I couldn't get that excited about an assembly before or after. "Wasn't that just the best assembly ever....they just keep getting better each year". (shaking my head in disbelief)

Had Enough (obviously 'cuz I'm here)

61

Is this Completely Apostate

by redline in

jw
friends

i just happened on this place a few days ago, and thought i would stop in to see what it was all about.

it claims to be a jehovah's witness forum, which it is not.. dont want to come here and point fingers, as i am sure there are some good people in here, just seems the bad have followed the good.

i guess in reality thats always the case, but hey, what else would these people do if they couldn't wage their little war on the truth.

Had Enough

redline:

I feel very much as Copernicus has just written.

It is instead an organization made up of imperfect humans (as you noted) who are driven by human motives.

Yes, and we were told that our spiritual maturity was gauged by our level of obediance to the FDS, the governing body, the ones commissioned to feed the sheep at the due time and that the GB was directed by God's holy spirit so who were we to question what God said.

I believed that for over 40 years, put my complete trust in what they told us in the pubs. The excitement over dates did NOT come from us the lowly rank and file, but from Fred Franz and his writers down to the district overseers and circuit overseers. The fervour was whipped up by their talks not by our expectations running ahead of the org.

The disappointment was, not that Armageddon didn't come when I and countless others expected it, but that those, who made us believe it was going to happen any day, were wrong and that was the beginning of my eyes looking at the org in a different light. They said they were God's spokesman so who was wrong, them or God? My answer was that they were not what they claimed to be.

BUT you say of me:

Your dissecting the religion looking for imperfections and using this minutia as justification for your actions.

Sorry but you have judged me wrongly. You do not know my whole story just from a couple of posts. I did not WANT to find out anything to "justify leaving"...I did not WANT to leave...this was all I had ever known and I was still totally convinced we were the ONLY ones who had the "truth", even after my disappointment with their errors on dates.

I had my dealings with unjust elders and shunning and could not reconcile that rule, with the scriptures, once I read the WHOLE chapter not just a verse here and there. That, and seeing alot more of injustice and unloving treatment, lead me to question just how much more were they wrong on, not to find fault to "justify" leaving, but to find answers, reasons to stay.

Like Copericus said, Ray Franz's book was the real eye-opener for me. Even though I started reading it with the attitude that if it was full of lies like the society says, I would be able to pick them out. I'm not stupid and brain-dead...I can analyse statements to see their worth. Besides I wondered, if it was full of lies, why didn't the society set the record straight and tell people the truth about "his lies in the book", but they never answered any, using a lame excuse that it wasn't necessary etc.

That book tells of things with proof, backing up any claims he makes, and is not full of hatred and sarcasm. Those events he told of, how the GB comes to their decisions on doctrine and many more events were so hard to take because of my complete and utter trust in this org. that I had to read it in intervals because I paced and cried and got angry and sad over and over again. My whole foundation was knocked out from under me.

That was only the beginning. I was not looking for justification...I WANTED to find something wrong with what I was finding out, but I couldn't and I couldn't leave it alone because now I started to see that I had been fooled for so many years into thinking this was the ONLY true religion worshipping God the way He directed....but the proof against that belief just kept piling up until I no longer can deny what I have learned about the secrets of the org.

This post is already to long to go into details, but if you start by looking at suggested sites from others here...go back several pages to find the JUSTICE #1 to #6 individual posts by Amazing to find his true experiences as an elder trying hard to do what was right but could no longer turn his back on the truth of the "truth".

Search out what we have found before you judge why we are here.

I come here because it hurt me so much to have to deal with what I have found and still am finding out, I just didn't know how to deal with it alone. Here I have found people who have experienced the same gut-wrenching feelings I have had and we help each other to cope and deal with it. I bawled writing my first post here with my story and I bawled at each outpouring of love and encouragement that answered me.

I don't cry that much now, but the hurt is still there because of my family situation. That's why I and many others come here...to heal.

I hope you stay longer as you seem to have a better heart condition than some of the other JWs who have come here just to "bash" us as they put it.

I sign myself as Had Enough because that's exactly how I feel.

Had Enough

61

Is this Completely Apostate

by redline in

jw
friends

i just happened on this place a few days ago, and thought i would stop in to see what it was all about.

it claims to be a jehovah's witness forum, which it is not.. dont want to come here and point fingers, as i am sure there are some good people in here, just seems the bad have followed the good.

i guess in reality thats always the case, but hey, what else would these people do if they couldn't wage their little war on the truth.

Had Enough

redline, you say:

Witness religion started out with some awkward beliefs, but over time refined them as more information became available, so you will find discrepancies within the literature. This does not however mean that the society is hypocritical, only that the society admits when its wrong, and updates the information as a growing process.

Yes I've heard that many times since the 1950's onward called "new light", but one thing I never could understand was if all the things that came from the governing body were the direction given directly to them by holy spirit from God, why did He give them wrong direction or allow them to get it wrong if He wanted them to direct his people?

Yes I know they are imperfect men and maybe "didn't see it clearly until later" but surely God would have made sure His organization directing His people on earth would be worshipping Him "in truth" and not with wrong thoughts.

How many times have they flip-flopped back and forth on a teaching?

How many families were adversely affected by sons/husbands having to serve prison time because alternative service for those conscripted to the army was not allowed and now it is? Does God change His mind? Can He not make Himself clear enough to these men?

Is God hypocritical in letting His people be beaten, raped or killed in Malawi for not buying a political card and yet allow the brothers in Mexico to bribe officials to give them a card saying they have served their time in the army so they didn't have to go to jail? The society was.

I'm not criticizing God...don't get me wrong. I'm questioning their claim to being directed by God when the get, not just a few minor things wrong at the beginning of the religion, but rather so many things wrong ever since the beginning right down to now.

Many of us lived through our growing up years from the 50's onward believing what they told us about not ever growing old..the end is any day now...it would be better not to have children, buy houses, no need for life insurance, no need for retirement savings, etc.

And no they did not apologize for blowing up importance of 1975. They hammered it into us as being so important and when it turned out wrong they blamed us for being over-enthusiastic. If you want direct quotes, I know we can find them for you.

We all grew up believing that the end would come in the generaion from 1914....now that has changed too.

These are only the tip of the iceburg. I have pages and pages saved of the things they have gotten wrong and in many cases dileberately mislead us on. Why would God let them make so many mistakes if peoples lives are affected so strongly? God would not purposely let those He is supposedly directing, mislead His sheep. Could it be that the governing body is not what it claims to be?

Had Enough

61

Is this Completely Apostate

by redline in

jw
friends

i just happened on this place a few days ago, and thought i would stop in to see what it was all about.

it claims to be a jehovah's witness forum, which it is not.. dont want to come here and point fingers, as i am sure there are some good people in here, just seems the bad have followed the good.

i guess in reality thats always the case, but hey, what else would these people do if they couldn't wage their little war on the truth.

Had Enough

redline:

I, too, as most of the posters here, was strong in my/our resolution. That's why we are here....because we now realize that strong resolution was totally misplaced. And the affect of finding that out after spending all our lives (compare my 4+ decades as a Witness to your 4) in the org. has been such a powerful blow to us, we come here to heal. Finding out the facts really broke my heart and I still have many tears for myself and many here who have suffered so much.

Our purpose is NOT to trick Witnesses into coming here and "drag them away from their religion". Like has been said, we have a great affection for each other here (for most of us) and feel a brotherhood here that helps those feeling downtrodden and needing encouragement, a shoulder to cry on or wise, mature suggestions to get over the hurt we've experienced.

Stick around and you will learn things you cannot deny. If what we said were lies, surely you could pick them out couldn't you?

Had Enough

10

"Murder Letter" -- Further discussion

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

this is a post i made that is burried inside another thread.

i thought i would make a new topic out of it in case someone wanted to add their thoughts to the subject.

this is how my post to farkel went:.

Had Enough

If I may add a thought here....(not that Farkel needs any help here)

Yadirf: you say:

But perhaps with the enlightenment that he has come by, after once having studied the Bible, he NOW sees that what he originally thought to be justifiable homicide was in fact murder because now he sees that he should have not been a part of a “gang” to begin with.

I doesn't matter what the man thinks now, the fact remains he is wanted by the police. That makes him a fugitive and the elders were told to harbour him. How honest, law-abiding and obeying Caesar is that?

And how considerate of the victims' family is that and how loving to the rest of the congregation he's associating with and the general public is that?

Whatever his "reason" for killing, he is wanted for murder and needs to have the courts decide his outcome.

Had Enough

61

Is this Completely Apostate

by redline in

jw
friends

i just happened on this place a few days ago, and thought i would stop in to see what it was all about.

it claims to be a jehovah's witness forum, which it is not.. dont want to come here and point fingers, as i am sure there are some good people in here, just seems the bad have followed the good.

i guess in reality thats always the case, but hey, what else would these people do if they couldn't wage their little war on the truth.

Had Enough

redline:

I hope you are still here and will take a minute to read this.

I was a Witness all my life, several decades, and was active, snug and smug "in the truth" like so many still are. BUT I do not consider myself an "apostate", "rotten" or "worthless". That's quite a presumptuous evaluation you have labelled us with.

When I started to find out the "real truth" about what the organization doesn't want you to know and so tells you not to go to sites like these, then I was crushed and felt betrayed because I had for so long given my life to following their direction in what I thought was serving God.

I've said before that it felt like a sharp blow to my gut and couldn't catch my breath, because I just was so shocked to find out, NOT LIES, but actual, proven, black and white FACTS about the organization that they want hidden.

I've been here only a few months and my head is still reeling from things I never would have thought possible in the pristine pure picture the organization has painted of themselves.

Perhaps if you stick around a little longer and read some of the personal experiences of what we have gone through in the hands of the organization, read some of Amazing's posts called "JUSTICE #1" through "JUSTICE #6", about his experiences as an elder and what so many helpless ones suffered from, let's just say, "over-zealous" elders.

Please don't be so quick to label us just because that's what you've heard from the platform about us. Many here still do believe in God and Jesus while others have completely lost faith in God due to their experiences.

It's not anyones's place to judge anyone else. Take the time to see for yourself how much love and help is here.

There will be the obvious yokel here whose only happiness comes from needling others but they have their own problems to deal with and will get help when they want or need it.

I hope you can look at us through mature eyes of wisdom and not blinders like so many Witnesses wear. And be strong, because you are going to be finding out things about the organization very soon from other sources that will be telling the whole world some of the ugly "truth" that has been hidden for so long.

Had Enough